Discussion:
Which NetBSD on a VS3176?
(too old to reply)
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-18 16:14:03 UTC
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Hi,

from time to time it happens that I want to try if it is possible to
install NetBSD on one of max VAXStations.

Since here where some rumors lately that some Bugs are fixed now,
sh dev
VMS/VMB ULTRIX ADDR DEVTYP NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
------- ------ -------- ------ -------- ----- -- ------ ---
ESA0 SE0 08-00-2B-23-C2-5A

DKA200 RZ2 A/2/0/00 DISK 1.05 GB FX RZ26L 440C
DKA400 RZ4 A/4/0/00 DISK 40.2 MB FX DCAS-34S65A
DKA500 RZ5 A/5/0/00 RODISK 171 MB RM CD-ROM 0167
...HostID.... A/6 INITR

...HostID.... B/6 INITR
b dka500
-DKA500
NetBSD/vax boot [1.11] <<
Press any key to abort autoboot 0
getdisklabel: no disk label
nfs_open: must mount first.
open netbsd.vax: No such file or directory
boot netbsd
getdisklabel: no disk label
nfs_open: must mount first.
3109016|

Here the spinner stops and nothing other happens.
I have a serial console connected to the printer port, the Terminal is a
seyon using an xterm on FreeBSD 9.2-stable.

As you can see, there are two Disks on the machine currently containing a
working OpenBSD 5.2, DKA200 is only a /tmp filesystem.
The CDROM Drive is an Toshiba XM5701, one of the few that is working for
installing VMS on that machine. The CDROM is readable and error free.

The Machine reports Errors like this after power on:


KA43-A V1.2

F...E...D...C...B...A_..9...8...7?..6...5...4...3_..2_..1...


? C 0080 0000.4001
?? 7 80A0 3424.21D0
? 6 80A1 0000.4001
? 4 00D4 100F.1F63

... but as far as I kno they are related to not connected loopbacks,
Mouse, Keyboard and the 7 has todo with the big 4GB disk where
the Firmware has its problems (12 Bit SCSI CMDs).

This doesn't prevent OpenBSD to work.

So please, which NetBSD Version is working on that VaxStation 3100 Model 76
with gpx graphics (not used)? I know that it is "supported" what (it seems)
doesn't means that it works. Which NetBSD works?
b dka500
-DKA500
OpenBSD/vax boot [1.16] <<
Press enter to autoboot now, or any other key to abort: 0
boot bsd
changing bootrpb.unit from 500 to 5
2525908+389356=0x2c7d08
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 1995-2013 OpenBSD. All rights reserved.
http://www.OpenBSD.org

OpenBSD 5.4 (RAMDISK) #0: Thu Aug 1 18:47:43 MDT 2013
***@vax.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/vax/compile/RAMDISK
VAXstation 3100/m76 [0B000006 04010002]
cpu: KA43
real mem = 16515072 (15MB)
avail mem = 12095488 (11MB)
mainbus0 at root
vsbus0 at mainbus0
vsbus0: interrupt mask 8
dz0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200a0000 vec 196 ipl 14 maskbit 6: console, 4 lines
lkkbd0 at dz0 line 0
wskbd0 at lkkbd0
ncr0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200c0080 vec 504 ipl 14 maskbit 1
scsibus0 at ncr0: 8 targets, initiator 6
sd0 at scsibus0 targ 2 lun 0: <DEC, RZ26L (C) DEC, 440C> SCSI2 0/direct
fixed
serial.DEC_RZ26L_(C)_DECPCB=420244076687(ZG44076687_?);_HDA=0000000044198178
sd0: 1001MB, 512 bytes/sector, 2050860 sectors
sd1 at scsibus0 targ 4 lun 0: <IBM, DCAS-34330, S65A> SCSI2 0/direct fixed
serial.IBM_DCAS-34330_B3J53343_
sd1: 4134MB, 512 bytes/sector, 8467200 sectors
cd0 at scsibus0 targ 5 lun 0: <TOSHIBA, CD-ROM XM-5701TA, 0167> SCSI2
5/cdrom removable
ncr1 at vsbus0 csr 0x200c0180 vec 508 ipl 14 maskbit 0
scsibus1 at ncr1: 8 targets, initiator 6
le0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200e0000 vec 80 ipl 14 maskbit 5 buf
0x28518000-0x28527fff
le0: address 08:00:2b:23:c2:5a
le0: 32 receive buffers, 8 transmit buffers
gpx0 at vsbus0 csr 0x3c000000 vec 68 ipl 14 maskbit 3
gpx0: 1024x864 4 plane color framebuffer
wsdisplay0 at gpx0
wsdisplay0: screen 0 added (std, vt100 emulation)
wskbd0: connecting to wsdisplay0
lkkbd0: no keyboard
boot device: cd0
disklabels not read: sd1 cd0 rd0
root on rd0a swap on rd0b dump on rd0b
clock has gained 288 days -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!
erase ^?, werase ^W, kill ^U, intr ^C, status ^T

Welcome to the OpenBSD/vax 5.4 installation program.
(I)nstall, (U)pgrade or (S)hell? i
At any prompt except password prompts you can escape to a shell by
typing '!'. Default answers are shown in []'s and are selected by
pressing RETURN. You can exit this program at any time by pressing
Control-C, but this can leave your system in an inconsistent state.

...

So plaase, what I'm doing wrong every time (with NetBSD), or it is not me
that is doing something wrong at all?

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Martin Husemann
2014-05-18 18:00:32 UTC
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Post by Holm Tiffe
3109016|
Here the spinner stops and nothing other happens.
This is just the INSTALL kernel (which comes with a pretty huge install
filesystem as a ramdisk) not fitting into you RAM.

Can you use another install method, like providing install.fs via NFS
and booting GENERIC (either from the OpenBSD root or via mopd)?

Martin
Hans Rosenfeld
2014-05-18 20:11:08 UTC
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Hi,
Post by Holm Tiffe
Hi,
from time to time it happens that I want to try if it is possible to
install NetBSD on one of max VAXStations.
Since here where some rumors lately that some Bugs are fixed now,
sh dev
VMS/VMB ULTRIX ADDR DEVTYP NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
------- ------ -------- ------ -------- ----- -- ------ ---
ESA0 SE0 08-00-2B-23-C2-5A
DKA200 RZ2 A/2/0/00 DISK 1.05 GB FX RZ26L 440C
DKA400 RZ4 A/4/0/00 DISK 40.2 MB FX DCAS-34S65A
DKA500 RZ5 A/5/0/00 RODISK 171 MB RM CD-ROM 0167
...HostID.... A/6 INITR
...HostID.... B/6 INITR
b dka500
-DKA500
NetBSD/vax boot [1.11] <<
Press any key to abort autoboot 0
getdisklabel: no disk label
nfs_open: must mount first.
open netbsd.vax: No such file or directory
boot netbsd
getdisklabel: no disk label
nfs_open: must mount first.
3109016|
Here the spinner stops and nothing other happens.
Looks like the boot loader overwrote itself with the kernel image. Do you
use the mop boot from 6.1.4? Maybe the load address for boot needs to be
bumped again.


Hans
--
%SYSTEM-F-ANARCHISM, The operating system has been overthrown
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-18 20:26:09 UTC
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Post by Hans Rosenfeld
Hi,
Post by Holm Tiffe
Hi,
from time to time it happens that I want to try if it is possible to
install NetBSD on one of max VAXStations.
Since here where some rumors lately that some Bugs are fixed now,
sh dev
VMS/VMB ULTRIX ADDR DEVTYP NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
------- ------ -------- ------ -------- ----- -- ------ ---
ESA0 SE0 08-00-2B-23-C2-5A
DKA200 RZ2 A/2/0/00 DISK 1.05 GB FX RZ26L 440C
DKA400 RZ4 A/4/0/00 DISK 40.2 MB FX DCAS-34S65A
DKA500 RZ5 A/5/0/00 RODISK 171 MB RM CD-ROM 0167
...HostID.... A/6 INITR
...HostID.... B/6 INITR
b dka500
-DKA500
NetBSD/vax boot [1.11] <<
Press any key to abort autoboot 0
getdisklabel: no disk label
nfs_open: must mount first.
open netbsd.vax: No such file or directory
boot netbsd
getdisklabel: no disk label
nfs_open: must mount first.
3109016|
Here the spinner stops and nothing other happens.
Looks like the boot loader overwrote itself with the kernel image. Do you
use the mop boot from 6.1.4? Maybe the load address for boot needs to be
bumped again.
Hans
--
%SYSTEM-F-ANARCHISM, The operating system has been overthrown
No, this time this was a CD boot.
The last time I tried netbooting 6.1 prerelease in april last year.
I was unable to install NetBSD to that time too, several problems with
disklabel and illegal intruction faults where problems to that time.
Thats th cause why I ask wich version is known to boot on the VS3100
M76 or M38. I've tried 3 machines last year, the two 3100 and a 4000/90
and on none of them NetBSD VAX was working as expected.

To try netbooting I have to patch the mopd on my 64Bit FreeBSD first or use
the old machine from last year..

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-19 16:25:55 UTC
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assuming a downloaded vax boot iso, eg
http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.4/images/NetBSD-6.1.4-vax.iso
cat > netbsd-16m.simh <<END
load -r /usr/pkg/share/simh/ka655x.bin
set cpu 16m
set rq0 ra90
at rq0 netbsd.dsk
set rq1 cdrom
at rq1 NetBSD-6.99.41-vax.iso
boot cpu
END
simh-vax netbsd-16m.simh
b dua1
Hmm.. David I'm not sure anymore.

I' trying again currently and have other problems, but the booting
continues (both in simh and on the VS3176) when the spinner stalls, it just
takes ages to load the rest of the text, the data and the bss. I don't know
whats happening there...

I get the menu from sysinst but have the disklabel problems again.

will report later..

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-19 16:33:10 UTC
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Post by Holm Tiffe
assuming a downloaded vax boot iso, eg
http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.4/images/NetBSD-6.1.4-vax.iso
cat > netbsd-16m.simh <<END
load -r /usr/pkg/share/simh/ka655x.bin
set cpu 16m
set rq0 ra90
at rq0 netbsd.dsk
set rq1 cdrom
at rq1 NetBSD-6.99.41-vax.iso
boot cpu
END
simh-vax netbsd-16m.simh
b dua1
Hmm.. David I'm not sure anymore.
I' trying again currently and have other problems, but the booting
continues (both in simh and on the VS3176) when the spinner stalls, it just
takes ages to load the rest of the text, the data and the bss. I don't know
whats happening there...
I get the menu from sysinst but have the disklabel problems again.
will report later..
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried two times now, the 2nd time I've erased the disk to install
with openbsd, but it changed nothing at all.

I can boot netbsd but at some time the loading of the kernel slows down,
one time more, 2nd time fewer..

I see the menus, chosed english, yes and then the disk sd1 and get that
(repeatedly)


On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?


+-----------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
/: write failepid 6 (sysinst): user write of ***@0x1a2000 at 93080
failed: 28
d, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#

The sd0 is a Fujitsu M2954S-512, that one with the +5V on the case (!),
I'll try a smaller disk next, have n IBM0663 (?) here and a quantum, have
to look if they work at all....

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-19 17:49:36 UTC
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Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Holm Tiffe
assuming a downloaded vax boot iso, eg
http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.4/images/NetBSD-6.1.4-vax.iso
cat > netbsd-16m.simh <<END
load -r /usr/pkg/share/simh/ka655x.bin
set cpu 16m
set rq0 ra90
at rq0 netbsd.dsk
set rq1 cdrom
at rq1 NetBSD-6.99.41-vax.iso
boot cpu
END
simh-vax netbsd-16m.simh
b dua1
Hmm.. David I'm not sure anymore.
I' trying again currently and have other problems, but the booting
continues (both in simh and on the VS3176) when the spinner stalls, it just
takes ages to load the rest of the text, the data and the bss. I don't know
whats happening there...
I get the menu from sysinst but have the disklabel problems again.
will report later..
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried two times now, the 2nd time I've erased the disk to install
with openbsd, but it changed nothing at all.
I can boot netbsd but at some time the loading of the kernel slows down,
one time more, 2nd time fewer..
I see the menus, chosed english, yes and then the disk sd1 and get that
(repeatedly)
On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?
+-----------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
failed: 28
d, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#
The sd0 is a Fujitsu M2954S-512, that one with the +5V on the case (!),
I'll try a smaller disk next, have n IBM0663 (?) here and a quantum, have
to look if they work at all....
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried to install on the IBM0663 disk (displayed as 995MB, sd0)
this makes no difference at all:

On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?


+--------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system
full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
/: write faipid 6 (sysinst): user write of ***@0x1a2000 at 93080 failed:
28
led, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#

I'm trying to write a label with 8 Partitions now with OpenBSD.
Hope taht helps..

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Johnny Billquist
2014-05-19 20:14:30 UTC
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Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Holm Tiffe
assuming a downloaded vax boot iso, eg
http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.4/images/NetBSD-6.1.4-vax.iso
cat > netbsd-16m.simh <<END
load -r /usr/pkg/share/simh/ka655x.bin
set cpu 16m
set rq0 ra90
at rq0 netbsd.dsk
set rq1 cdrom
at rq1 NetBSD-6.99.41-vax.iso
boot cpu
END
simh-vax netbsd-16m.simh
b dua1
Hmm.. David I'm not sure anymore.
I' trying again currently and have other problems, but the booting
continues (both in simh and on the VS3176) when the spinner stalls, it just
takes ages to load the rest of the text, the data and the bss. I don't know
whats happening there...
I get the menu from sysinst but have the disklabel problems again.
will report later..
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried two times now, the 2nd time I've erased the disk to install
with openbsd, but it changed nothing at all.
I can boot netbsd but at some time the loading of the kernel slows down,
one time more, 2nd time fewer..
I see the menus, chosed english, yes and then the disk sd1 and get that
(repeatedly)
On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?
+-----------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
failed: 28
d, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#
The sd0 is a Fujitsu M2954S-512, that one with the +5V on the case (!),
I'll try a smaller disk next, have n IBM0663 (?) here and a quantum, have
to look if they work at all....
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried to install on the IBM0663 disk (displayed as 995MB, sd0)
Did I miss something? Why did you expect any different result?
You're getting an error about the root file system being full, and this
on the installation system, where the root file system is a ram disk.
Makes no difference what harddrive you hook up.

Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: ***@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 06:29:15 UTC
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Raw Message
[..]
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Holm Tiffe
On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?
+-----------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system
full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
failed: 28
d, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#
The sd0 is a Fujitsu M2954S-512, that one with the +5V on the case (!),
I'll try a smaller disk next, have n IBM0663 (?) here and a quantum, have
to look if they work at all....
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried to install on the IBM0663 disk (displayed as 995MB, sd0)
Did I miss something? Why did you expect any different result?
You're getting an error about the root file system being full, and this
on the installation system, where the root file system is a ram disk.
Makes no difference what harddrive you hook up.
Johnny
The Filesystem gets full since sysinst is core dumping with an illegal
instruction fault. After that I have a prompt, stty sane recovers the
terminal, I can remove the core and do commands be entering them in the
shell. Disklabel isn't really helpful then, it displays a "564" ??
I've tried the different disk size since the MV3100 M76 has a problem
with 12BIT SCSI cmds and some wrape around of sizes over 4 Gig in the
Bootroms.
I've now created the disklabel on the 0663 disk with OpenBSD and after
booting NetBSD again I could recreate the filesystems on th disk and
-DKA0
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
NetBSD/vax boot [1.11] <<
Press any key to abort autoboot 3
stray interrupt: vector 0x54, ipl 26
nfs_open: must mount first.
open netbsd.vax: Device not configured
Post by Johnny Billquist
boot netbsd
2590976+174136 [211456+201165]=0x308128
Copyright (c) 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005,
2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
The NetBSD Foundation, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
NetBSD 6.1.4 (GENERIC)
VAXstation 3100/m76
primary cache status: 0x20a<DPERR,REFRESH,ENABLE>
secondary cache status: 0xffe1<TPE,DPE,MISS,ENABLE>
total memory = 16124 KB
avail memory = 12060 KB
mainbus0 (root)
cpu0 at mainbus0: Rigel, 2KB L1 cache, 128KB L2 cache
vsbus0 at mainbus0
vsbus0: interrupt mask 8
le0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200e0000 vec 120 ipl 17 maskbit 5 buf
0x283ec000-0x283fbfff
le0: address 08:00:2b:23:c2:5a
le0: 32 receive buffers, 8 transmit buffers
dz0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200a0000 vec 304 ipl 17 maskbit 6
dz0: 4 lines
lkkbd0 at dz0
wskbd0 at lkkbd0 mux 1
lkms0 at dz0
wsmouse0 at lkms0 mux 0
si0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200c0080 vec 770 ipl 17 maskbit 1
si0: NCR5380, SCSI ID 6
scsibus0 at si0: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
si1 at vsbus0 csr 0x200c0180 vec 774 ipl 17 maskbit 0
si1: NCR5380, SCSI ID 6
scsibus1 at si1: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
smg0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200f0000 vec 104 ipl 17 maskbit 3
smg0: could not find 8x15 font
scsibus0: waiting 2 seconds for devices to settle...
scsibus1: waiting 2 seconds for devices to settle...
sd0 at scsibus0 target 0 lun 0: <IBM OEM, 0663L12, s z> disk fixed
sd0: 958 MB, 2051 cyl, 15 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 1962030 sectors
sd0: async, 8-bit transfers
sd1 at scsibus0 target 4 lun 0: <IBM, DCAS-34330, S65A> disk fixed
sd1: 4134 MB, 8205 cyl, 6 head, 171 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 8467200 sectors
sd1: async, 8-bit transfers
cd0 at scsibus0 target 5 lun 0: <TOSHIBA, CD-ROM XM-5701TA, 0167> cdrom
removable
cd0: async, 8-bit transfers
sd1: no disk label
boot device: sd0
root on sd0a dumps on sd0b
root file system type: ffs
/etc/rc.conf is not configured. Multiuser boot aborted.
We recommend that you create a non-root account and use su(1) for root
access.
#
Again, that is NOT simh, that's on the iron and the miniroot had enough
space to work and install NetBSD to the disk. It is just sysinst that bails
out.
BTW: Miniroot is called miniroot because it should be so small to fit in
the memory of the smallest possible machine for installation purposes..,
just in Case someone doesn't know..
SCNR
So it seems to be exactly as I wrote before, You have a running System but
no one is able to install it on the VS3100 "the normal way".
Don't try to find the Bug using simh and the KA655, I've tried this, on
this "architecture" the sysinst is working flawlessly and doesn't core dump.
Last year I've tried to install over network so the network was up and
running when sysinst core dumped. Now I'm booting from CD. Lets see if I
can get up the network and copy the core dump for debugging purposes.
I tought sysinst may be compiled with the wrong CPU definition causing that
"illegal instruction" core dump, but the ka655 used in simh is also a CVAX.
It is possible that simh lets running instructions that should'nt,
emulating to much fp a CVAX? Really don't know..
Regards,
Holm
Typo: should be "emulating to much for a CVAX?"

Im now here:
The key's randomart image is:
+--[ RSA 1024]----+
| |
| |
| o . .|
| . o *E..|
| S o +.+oo|
| . ..+.=.|
| . o.o .|
| ...= |
| oBo |
+-----------------+
Starting sshd.
Starting inetd.
Starting cron.
Tue May 20 06:15:41 UTC 2014

NetBSD/vax (vs3176.tsht.lan) (console)

login:

The machine is running multiuser.

So it is clear now that the machine is ok, the hardware has no problems at
all. We really need to find the bug in that sysinst/disklabel.

I'll try to move this to the 4G disk later this day.

Is there already a solution for this:

Building databases: devcprng sysctl: WARNING pseudorandom rekeying.
, utmp, utmpx.

I have a separate /var filesystem so there is no entrophy at boot before
this is mounted.

regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 10:01:25 UTC
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Raw Message
Holm Tiffe wrote:
[..]


Now I have disklabel/newfs problems again.

I've booted the NetBSD from the IBM0663 on DKA0 and want to install
it on the 4GB Disk on DKA100.

vs3176# disklabel sd1
# /dev/rsd1c:
type: SCSI
disk: SCSI disk
label: M2954S-512
flags:
bytes/sector: 512
sectors/track: 165
tracks/cylinder: 9
sectors/cylinder: 1485
cylinders: 5714
# /dev/rsd1c:
type: SCSI
disk: SCSI disk
label: M2954S-512
flags:
bytes/sector: 512
sectors/track: 165
tracks/cylinder: 9
sectors/cylinder: 1485
cylinders: 5714
total sectors: 8498506
rpm: 7200
interleave: 1
trackskew: 0
cylinderskew: 0
headswitch: 0 # microseconds
track-to-track seek: 0 # microseconds
drivedata: 0

8 partitions:
# size offset fstype [fsize bsize cpg/sgs]
a: 409600 16 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 0*-
275*)
b: 262144 409616 swap # (Cyl. 275*-
452*)
c: 8498506 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 -
5722*)
d: 1024000 671760 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 452*-
1141*)
e: 6393146 1695760 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 1141*-
5447*)
f: 409600 8088906 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 5447*-
5722*)
g: 8498506 0 unused 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 5447*-
5722*)
h: 8498506 0 unused 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 5447*-
5722*)
/tmp//EdDk.a00665a: 29 lines, 1031 characters.
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1a
/dev/rsd1a: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1f
/dev/rsd1f: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1f
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1e
/dev/rsd1e: 3121.7MB (6393144 sectors) block size 16384, fragment size 2048
using 16 cylinder groups of 195.11MB, 12487 blks, 24704 inodes.
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
cpu0: Begin traceback...
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
Stack traceback :
Process is executing in user space.
cpu0: End traceback...

dump to dev 20,1 not possible


83 BOOT SYS
?40 NOSUCHDEV
84 FAIL
The Label was created with NetBSD this time, the disk was zeroed out on the
first 100 blocks. Tried it with a label without the g/h partitions before,
results are mostly the same. Newfs is core dumping.

So what the heck is the similarity that prevents sysinst from doing his job
and the disklabel/newfs stuff on a running system? What could be different
to other VAXes? This problem seems to not exist when one runs NetBSD in
simh, but both the VS3100/M38 and the M76 (CVAX and Rigel) have it in
common.

The simh VAX3900 is running on ra disks (ra90) and the Vaxstations on
the ncr SCSI Controller. Could this be possibly the problem?
I think to remember of similar Problems with the VS4000/90.
If the system is up and running, it runs well...

Any hints? Ideas?

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Martin Husemann
2014-05-20 10:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
Now that you have a core and gdb around, why don't you look at the
faulting instruction?

Martin
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 10:09:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Husemann
Post by Holm Tiffe
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
Now that you have a core and gdb around, why don't you look at the
faulting instruction?
Martin
Since there is no gdb jet...
Currently I'm not sure if there is still a useable rootfs on dka0...

Regards,

Holm

BTW: is the disklabel ok? How about the 16 Block on a vax, is it neccessary
to start the rootfs at 0 or are the 16 blocks offset are ok?
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 10:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Martin Husemann
Post by Holm Tiffe
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
Now that you have a core and gdb around, why don't you look at the
faulting instruction?
Martin
Since there is no gdb jet...
Currently I'm not sure if there is still a useable rootfs on dka0...
Regards,
Holm
BTW: is the disklabel ok? How about the 16 Block on a vax, is it neccessary
to start the rootfs at 0 or are the 16 blocks offset are ok?
vs3176# gdb /sbin/newfs
GNU gdb (GDB) 7.3.1
Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
<http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "vax--netbsdelf".
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>...
Reading symbols from /sbin/newfs...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
(gdb) r /dev/rsd1a
Starting program: /sbin/newfs /dev/rsd1a
/dev/rsd1a: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x00000000 in ?? ()
(gdb) bt
#0 0x00000000 in ?? ()
(gdb)

What todo?

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 11:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
What todo?
info reg
bt
x/i $pc
as a start.
Martin
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1a
/dev/rsd1a: 200.0MB (409616 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.01MB, 5121 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Illegal instruction (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
vs3176# gdb /sbin/newfs /root/newfs.core
GNU gdb (GDB) 7.3.1
Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
<http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "vax--netbsdelf".
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>...
Reading symbols from /sbin/newfs...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
[New process 1]

warning: Can't read pathname for load map: Input/output error.
Core was generated by `newfs'.
Program terminated with signal 4, Illegal instruction.
#0 0x000138e0 in rdfs (2, 0, 8192, 2147463028)
(gdb) info reg
r0 0x2000 8192
r1 0x0 0
r2 0x0 0
r3 0x0 0
r4 0x1f 31
r5 0x7fffaf74 2147463028
r6 0x2 2
r7 0x0 0
r8 0x2000 8192
r9 0x19dcc 105932
r10 0x32f08 208648
r11 0x332dc 209628
ap 0x7fffaf60 2147463008
fp 0x7fffaf40 2147462976
sp 0x7fffaf3c 2147462972
pc 0x138e0 80096
ps 0x3c00000 62914560
(gdb) bt
#0 0x000138e0 in rdfs (2, 0, 8192, 2147463028)
#1 0x00013b47 in zap_old_sblock ()
#2 0x00000000 in ?? ()
(gdb) x/i $pc
=> 0x138e0 <rdfs+150>: halt
(gdb)


I've changed the offset from the root partition (sd1a) to 0, this time
newfs coredumps with an illegal inst, the previous one was a segmentation
fault.

2nd try with offset 16:

s3176# gdb /sbin/newfs /root/newfs.core
GNU gdb (GDB) 7.3.1
Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
<http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "vax--netbsdelf".
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>...
Reading symbols from /sbin/newfs...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
[New process 1]

warning: Can't read pathname for load map: Input/output error.
Core was generated by `newfs'.
Program terminated with signal 4, Illegal instruction.
#0 0x00013013 in main (2, 2147479060, 2147479072)
(gdb) bt
#0 0x00013013 in main (2, 2147479060, 2147479072)
(gdb) info reg
r0 0x64000 409600
r1 0x0 0
r2 0x2ae88 175752
r3 0x0 0
r4 0x0 0
r5 0x0 0
r6 0x64000 409600
r7 0x0 0
r8 0x4 4
r9 0x2aa84 174724
r10 0x0 0
r11 0x0 0
ap 0x7fffedc8 2147478984
fp 0x7fffed9c 2147478940
sp 0x7fffd5a8 2147472808
pc 0x13013 77843
ps 0x3c00000 62914560
(gdb) x/i $pc
=> 0x13013 <main+3105>: halt
(gdb)


objdump:

12ff7: 11 1a brb 13013 <main+0xc21>
12ff9: 9e ff e5 72 movab *2a2e4
<_GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_+0x17c>,r2
12ffd: 01 00 52
...

0001366e <fserr>:
...

00013686 <calc_memfree>:
...

000136f4 <copy_dir>:
...

0001378a <makedir>:
...

0001384a <rdfs>:
...

00013912 <setblock>:
...

000139a0 <wtfs>:
...

00013a5c <zap_old_sblock>:
...

00013bea <iput>:
...
13d72: 00 halt
13d73: 00 halt
13d74: c3 bc 00 50 subl3 *0x0(ap),r0,*0x5660(r0)
13d78: d0 60 56
13d7b: 78 8f e1 56 ashl $0xe1,r6,r7
13d7f: 57

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Anders Magnusson
2014-05-20 11:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
/tmp//EdDk.a00665a: 29 lines, 1031 characters.
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1a
/dev/rsd1a: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1f
/dev/rsd1f: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1f
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1e
/dev/rsd1e: 3121.7MB (6393144 sectors) block size 16384, fragment size 2048
using 16 cylinder groups of 195.11MB, 12487 blks, 24704 inodes.
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
cpu0: Begin traceback...
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
Process is executing in user space.
cpu0: End traceback...
Hm, I would think that the segfault is due to something else than a
missing instruction.
CVAX has all usual instructions (no need to emulate anything).

The rmpage panic is more likely to be the root cause; it's a fail in the
page removing routine.
It may be because of something in the real CVAX do not behave as simh,
especially in the
cache or TLB. It's a request for removal of a mapping where the mapping
itself cannot be found.

-- Ragge
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 11:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anders Magnusson
Post by Holm Tiffe
/tmp//EdDk.a00665a: 29 lines, 1031 characters.
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1a
/dev/rsd1a: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1f
/dev/rsd1f: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1f
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1e
/dev/rsd1e: 3121.7MB (6393144 sectors) block size 16384, fragment size 2048
using 16 cylinder groups of 195.11MB, 12487 blks, 24704 inodes.
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
cpu0: Begin traceback...
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
Process is executing in user space.
cpu0: End traceback...
Hm, I would think that the segfault is due to something else than a
missing instruction.
CVAX has all usual instructions (no need to emulate anything).
The rmpage panic is more likely to be the root cause; it's a fail in the
page removing routine.
It may be because of something in the real CVAX do not behave as simh,
especially in the
cache or TLB. It's a request for removal of a mapping where the mapping
itself cannot be found.
-- Ragge
Hmm, this is a little bit too complicated for my horizont.
I do know almost nothing about VM Systems..

Can I do anything to further debug this?
Should I do make the machine accessable from the net?

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Anders Magnusson
2014-05-20 12:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Anders Magnusson
Post by Holm Tiffe
/tmp//EdDk.a00665a: 29 lines, 1031 characters.
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1a
/dev/rsd1a: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1f
/dev/rsd1f: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1f
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1e
/dev/rsd1e: 3121.7MB (6393144 sectors) block size 16384, fragment size 2048
using 16 cylinder groups of 195.11MB, 12487 blks, 24704 inodes.
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
cpu0: Begin traceback...
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
Process is executing in user space.
cpu0: End traceback...
Hm, I would think that the segfault is due to something else than a
missing instruction.
CVAX has all usual instructions (no need to emulate anything).
The rmpage panic is more likely to be the root cause; it's a fail in the
page removing routine.
It may be because of something in the real CVAX do not behave as simh,
especially in the
cache or TLB. It's a request for removal of a mapping where the mapping
itself cannot be found.
-- Ragge
Hmm, this is a little bit too complicated for my horizont.
I do know almost nothing about VM Systems..
It can be quite difficult to find. Hm, the only special thing in newfs
I can think of should be mmap.
Post by Holm Tiffe
Can I do anything to further debug this?
Should I do make the machine accessable from the net?
I have a CVAX (mv3900) myself, but have no idea of when it can be
possible for me to debug it.

About the problem itself; the code path there hasn't changed for a long
time, and the bug do not reveal itself on other targets.
Therefore I'm thinking of if it can be a late change in gcc that
optimize something that causes this, which it did not do in older gcc.
But this is only speculations.

--Ragge
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 13:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anders Magnusson
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Anders Magnusson
Post by Holm Tiffe
/tmp//EdDk.a00665a: 29 lines, 1031 characters.
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1a
/dev/rsd1a: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1a
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1f
/dev/rsd1f: 200.0MB (409600 sectors) block size 8192, fragment size 1024
using 5 cylinder groups of 40.00MB, 5120 blks, 9920 inodes.
[1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) newfs /dev/rsd1f
vs3176# newfs /dev/rsd1e
/dev/rsd1e: 3121.7MB (6393144 sectors) block size 16384, fragment size 2048
using 16 cylinder groups of 195.11MB, 12487 blks, 24704 inodes.
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
cpu0: Begin traceback...
panic: rmpage: pm 0x8088d760 br 0x80fc7560
Process is executing in user space.
cpu0: End traceback...
Hm, I would think that the segfault is due to something else than a
missing instruction.
CVAX has all usual instructions (no need to emulate anything).
The rmpage panic is more likely to be the root cause; it's a fail in the
page removing routine.
It may be because of something in the real CVAX do not behave as simh,
especially in the
cache or TLB. It's a request for removal of a mapping where the mapping
itself cannot be found.
-- Ragge
Hmm, this is a little bit too complicated for my horizont.
I do know almost nothing about VM Systems..
It can be quite difficult to find. Hm, the only special thing in newfs
I can think of should be mmap.
Post by Holm Tiffe
Can I do anything to further debug this?
Should I do make the machine accessable from the net?
I have a CVAX (mv3900) myself, but have no idea of when it can be
possible for me to debug it.
About the problem itself; the code path there hasn't changed for a long
time, and the bug do not reveal itself on other targets.
Therefore I'm thinking of if it can be a late change in gcc that
optimize something that causes this, which it did not do in older gcc.
But this is only speculations.
--Ragge
So what, is there someone that can do this?
If not, someone should possibly delete the "supported" State for
the CVAX Computers from the NetBSDs Website.

Besides of that, it isn't only CVAX, it is Rigel too. I'm testing on a
VS3100 M76 and the M76 has a Rigel CPU, the M38 a CVAX.

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Anders Magnusson
2014-05-20 13:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
So what, is there someone that can do this?
If not, someone should possibly delete the "supported" State for
the CVAX Computers from the NetBSDs Website.
Besides of that, it isn't only CVAX, it is Rigel too. I'm testing on a
VS3100 M76 and the M76 has a Rigel CPU, the M38 a CVAX.
Hm, wait here, I thought CVAX was the problem?

I installed 6.0 on a 4000/300 which had no problem, and I believe that's
a Rigel.

Is there a CVAX problem of the same type?

-- Ragge
Johnny Billquist
2014-05-20 14:31:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
+--[ RSA 1024]----+
| |
| |
| o . .|
| . o *E..|
| S o +.+oo|
| . ..+.=.|
| . o.o .|
| ...= |
| oBo |
+-----------------+
Starting sshd.
Starting inetd.
Starting cron.
Tue May 20 06:15:41 UTC 2014
NetBSD/vax (vs3176.tsht.lan) (console)
The machine is running multiuser.
So it is clear now that the machine is ok, the hardware has no problems at
all. We really need to find the bug in that sysinst/disklabel.
Right. So let's now focus on this being a sysinst problem.
Post by Holm Tiffe
I'll try to move this to the 4G disk later this day.
Should not be any problems. The only requirements is that the root file
system needs to be within the first 1G of the disk. Once the kernel have
been loaded the ROM driver is not used anymore, and the full size of the
disk can be accessed without problems.
Post by Holm Tiffe
Building databases: devcprng sysctl: WARNING pseudorandom rekeying.
, utmp, utmpx.
I have a separate /var filesystem so there is no entrophy at boot before
this is mounted.
It's just a warning. :-)
I have it to, and just ignore it. I think it really just is because of
/var not mounted yet. Maybe you could point the startup command to read
from somewhere else instead to get rid of the message. I have not even
bothered looking into that. There are other problems that are more
important to look at.

Johnny
Martin Husemann
2014-05-20 14:38:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Johnny Billquist
Right. So let's now focus on this being a sysinst problem.
No, it is not (or at least not primarily, it could deal more gracefully
with some unexpected failures, but...)

Something unknown so far makes newfs crash on Holm's machine. We have
no idea what that is.

The crash causes a core, which fills the ramdisk root. And sysinst doesn't
deal with that.

Standard suggestion: try -current and report if that works.

Martin
Johnny Billquist
2014-05-20 14:57:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Husemann
Post by Johnny Billquist
Right. So let's now focus on this being a sysinst problem.
No, it is not (or at least not primarily, it could deal more gracefully
with some unexpected failures, but...)
Something unknown so far makes newfs crash on Holm's machine. We have
no idea what that is.
The crash causes a core, which fills the ramdisk root. And sysinst doesn't
deal with that.
Standard suggestion: try -current and report if that works.
Ah, yes. Sorry that I didn't see the newfs crash before I wrote my reply.
So it's newfs that cause the initial crash, and all the other things are
fallout from that.

Yes. Trying current would be an interesting data point.

Johnny
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 16:11:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Martin Husemann
Post by Johnny Billquist
Right. So let's now focus on this being a sysinst problem.
No, it is not (or at least not primarily, it could deal more gracefully
with some unexpected failures, but...)
Something unknown so far makes newfs crash on Holm's machine. We have
no idea what that is.
The crash causes a core, which fills the ramdisk root. And sysinst doesn't
deal with that.
Standard suggestion: try -current and report if that works.
Ah, yes. Sorry that I didn't see the newfs crash before I wrote my reply.
So it's newfs that cause the initial crash, and all the other things are
fallout from that.
Yes. Trying current would be an interesting data point.
Johnny
Is there a iso image or have I to netboot?
(dump question, yes I can look for that myself.)

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Martin Husemann
2014-05-20 16:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Holm Tiffe
Is there a iso image or have I to netboot?
(dump question, yes I can look for that myself.)
http://nyftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-daily/HEAD/201405191510Z/images/NetBSD-6.99.42-vax.iso

Martin
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 16:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Husemann
Post by Holm Tiffe
Is there a iso image or have I to netboot?
(dump question, yes I can look for that myself.)
http://nyftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-daily/HEAD/201405191510Z/images/NetBSD-6.99.42-vax.iso
Martin
Thx, fetching already.

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 16:09:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
+--[ RSA 1024]----+
| |
| |
| o . .|
| . o *E..|
| S o +.+oo|
| . ..+.=.|
| . o.o .|
| ...= |
| oBo |
+-----------------+
Starting sshd.
Starting inetd.
Starting cron.
Tue May 20 06:15:41 UTC 2014
NetBSD/vax (vs3176.tsht.lan) (console)
The machine is running multiuser.
So it is clear now that the machine is ok, the hardware has no problems at
all. We really need to find the bug in that sysinst/disklabel.
Right. So let's now focus on this being a sysinst problem.
Post by Holm Tiffe
I'll try to move this to the 4G disk later this day.
Should not be any problems. The only requirements is that the root file
system needs to be within the first 1G of the disk. Once the kernel have
been loaded the ROM driver is not used anymore, and the full size of the
disk can be accessed without problems.
No, unfortunetely it doens't work since newfs is coredumping all the time.
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
Building databases: devcprng sysctl: WARNING pseudorandom rekeying.
, utmp, utmpx.
I have a separate /var filesystem so there is no entrophy at boot before
this is mounted.
It's just a warning. :-)
I have it to, and just ignore it. I think it really just is because of
/var not mounted yet. Maybe you could point the startup command to read
from somewhere else instead to get rid of the message. I have not even
bothered looking into that. There are other problems that are more
important to look at.
Johnny
This is a minor problem anyway, I know that it only warns, no problem.
Another thing what I forgot to mention is that stall of the spinner while
installing from cd.
That "stall" takes different long every time and the rest from the read in
is slowed down but to a different velocity after every boot. I've not
measured that but for sure there goes something wrong too.
At the first time I had this happen, it wasa sthe "slowest stall" so that I
tought it hung.

Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 05:36:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Johnny Billquist wrote:

[..]
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Holm Tiffe
On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?
+-----------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system
full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
failed: 28
d, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#
The sd0 is a Fujitsu M2954S-512, that one with the +5V on the case (!),
I'll try a smaller disk next, have n IBM0663 (?) here and a quantum, have
to look if they work at all....
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried to install on the IBM0663 disk (displayed as 995MB, sd0)
Did I miss something? Why did you expect any different result?
You're getting an error about the root file system being full, and this
on the installation system, where the root file system is a ram disk.
Makes no difference what harddrive you hook up.
Johnny
The Filesystem gets full since sysinst is core dumping with an illegal
instruction fault. After that I have a prompt, stty sane recovers the
terminal, I can remove the core and do commands be entering them in the
shell. Disklabel isn't really helpful then, it displays a "564" ??

I've tried the different disk size since the MV3100 M76 has a problem
with 12BIT SCSI cmds and some wrape around of sizes over 4 Gig in the
Bootroms.

I've now created the disklabel on the 0663 disk with OpenBSD and after
booting NetBSD again I could recreate the filesystems on th disk and
install the binary sets per hand on the disk. Now I'm here:

-DKA0
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
NetBSD/vax boot [1.11] <<
Press any key to abort autoboot 3
stray interrupt: vector 0x54, ipl 26
nfs_open: must mount first.
open netbsd.vax: Device not configured
Post by Johnny Billquist
boot netbsd
2590976+174136 [211456+201165]=0x308128
Copyright (c) 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005,
2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
The NetBSD Foundation, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.

NetBSD 6.1.4 (GENERIC)
VAXstation 3100/m76
primary cache status: 0x20a<DPERR,REFRESH,ENABLE>
secondary cache status: 0xffe1<TPE,DPE,MISS,ENABLE>
total memory = 16124 KB
avail memory = 12060 KB
mainbus0 (root)
cpu0 at mainbus0: Rigel, 2KB L1 cache, 128KB L2 cache
vsbus0 at mainbus0
vsbus0: interrupt mask 8
le0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200e0000 vec 120 ipl 17 maskbit 5 buf
0x283ec000-0x283fbfff
le0: address 08:00:2b:23:c2:5a
le0: 32 receive buffers, 8 transmit buffers
dz0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200a0000 vec 304 ipl 17 maskbit 6
dz0: 4 lines
lkkbd0 at dz0
wskbd0 at lkkbd0 mux 1
lkms0 at dz0
wsmouse0 at lkms0 mux 0
si0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200c0080 vec 770 ipl 17 maskbit 1
si0: NCR5380, SCSI ID 6
scsibus0 at si0: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
si1 at vsbus0 csr 0x200c0180 vec 774 ipl 17 maskbit 0
si1: NCR5380, SCSI ID 6
scsibus1 at si1: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
smg0 at vsbus0 csr 0x200f0000 vec 104 ipl 17 maskbit 3
smg0: could not find 8x15 font
scsibus0: waiting 2 seconds for devices to settle...
scsibus1: waiting 2 seconds for devices to settle...
sd0 at scsibus0 target 0 lun 0: <IBM OEM, 0663L12, s z> disk fixed
sd0: 958 MB, 2051 cyl, 15 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 1962030 sectors
sd0: async, 8-bit transfers
sd1 at scsibus0 target 4 lun 0: <IBM, DCAS-34330, S65A> disk fixed
sd1: 4134 MB, 8205 cyl, 6 head, 171 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 8467200 sectors
sd1: async, 8-bit transfers
cd0 at scsibus0 target 5 lun 0: <TOSHIBA, CD-ROM XM-5701TA, 0167> cdrom
removable
cd0: async, 8-bit transfers
sd1: no disk label
boot device: sd0
root on sd0a dumps on sd0b
root file system type: ffs
/etc/rc.conf is not configured. Multiuser boot aborted.
Enter pathname of shell or RETURN for /bin/sh:
We recommend that you create a non-root account and use su(1) for root
access.
#

Again, that is NOT simh, that's on the iron and the miniroot had enough
space to work and install NetBSD to the disk. It is just sysinst that bails
out.

BTW: Miniroot is called miniroot because it should be so small to fit in
the memory of the smallest possible machine for installation purposes..,
just in Case someone doesn't know..
SCNR

So it seems to be exactly as I wrote before, You have a running System but
no one is able to install it on the VS3100 "the normal way".
Don't try to find the Bug using simh and the KA655, I've tried this, on
this "architecture" the sysinst is working flawlessly and doesn't core dump.

Last year I've tried to install over network so the network was up and
running when sysinst core dumped. Now I'm booting from CD. Lets see if I
can get up the network and copy the core dump for debugging purposes.

I tought sysinst may be compiled with the wrong CPU definition causing that
"illegal instruction" core dump, but the ka655 used in simh is also a CVAX.
It is possible that simh lets running instructions that should'nt,
emulating to much fp a CVAX? Really don't know..

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Johnny Billquist
2014-05-20 14:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[..]
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Holm Tiffe
On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?
+-----------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system
full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
failed: 28
d, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#
The sd0 is a Fujitsu M2954S-512, that one with the +5V on the case (!),
I'll try a smaller disk next, have n IBM0663 (?) here and a quantum, have
to look if they work at all....
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried to install on the IBM0663 disk (displayed as 995MB, sd0)
Did I miss something? Why did you expect any different result?
You're getting an error about the root file system being full, and this
on the installation system, where the root file system is a ram disk.
Makes no difference what harddrive you hook up.
Johnny
The Filesystem gets full since sysinst is core dumping with an illegal
instruction fault. After that I have a prompt, stty sane recovers the
terminal, I can remove the core and do commands be entering them in the
shell. Disklabel isn't really helpful then, it displays a "564" ??
You are first getting the file system full error. You then get sysinst
crashing, and that is what triggers the writing of the core file, or
else the screen dump you sent isn't telling the full story.
I've tried the different disk size since the MV3100 M76 has a problem
with 12BIT SCSI cmds and some wrape around of sizes over 4 Gig in the
Bootroms.
Right. Which is only a problem in the booting, as that is the only time
the device drivers from ROM is used. They are not used on a running
system, and you have no such size limitations on disks on a running system.
Oh, and the size limit is actually only just over 1G unless I remember
wrong.
Again, that is NOT simh, that's on the iron and the miniroot had enough
space to work and install NetBSD to the disk. It is just sysinst that bails
out.
Yeah. sysinst can be a problem of its own.
BTW: Miniroot is called miniroot because it should be so small to fit in
the memory of the smallest possible machine for installation purposes..,
just in Case someone doesn't know..
SCNR
That's your interpretation. Others might have different opinions...
So it seems to be exactly as I wrote before, You have a running System but
no one is able to install it on the VS3100 "the normal way".
Don't try to find the Bug using simh and the KA655, I've tried this, on
this "architecture" the sysinst is working flawlessly and doesn't core dump.
Last year I've tried to install over network so the network was up and
running when sysinst core dumped. Now I'm booting from CD. Lets see if I
can get up the network and copy the core dump for debugging purposes.
I did a network install on a 3600 only a couple of months ago, but that
machine had 24 megs if I remember right.
I tought sysinst may be compiled with the wrong CPU definition causing that
"illegal instruction" core dump, but the ka655 used in simh is also a CVAX.
It is possible that simh lets running instructions that should'nt,
emulating to much fp a CVAX? Really don't know..
No. Such style of CPU differences are not the issue.

Johnny
Martin Husemann
2014-05-20 14:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Johnny Billquist
That's your interpretation. Others might have different opinions...
FWIW: I'm getting rid of the miniroot for CD based installations and will
update the installation documentation with recommentdations for small
memory installs.


Martin
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 16:22:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Husemann
Post by Johnny Billquist
That's your interpretation. Others might have different opinions...
FWIW: I'm getting rid of the miniroot for CD based installations and will
update the installation documentation with recommentdations for small
memory installs.
Martin
THX,


I almost know how I have to made a install "by hand", but in this case it
is really tricky since the required tools like disklabel and newfs aren't
working.

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Holm Tiffe
2014-05-20 16:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Johnny Billquist
[..]
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Holm Tiffe
Post by Holm Tiffe
On which disk do you want to install NetBSD?
+-----------------------------------+
| Available disks |
| |
|uid 0, pid 6, command sysinst, on /: file system
full
| b: sd1 (4.0G, IBM DCAS-34330) |
failed: 28
d, file system is full
[1] Illegal instruction sysinst
#
The sd0 is a Fujitsu M2954S-512, that one with the +5V on the case (!),
I'll try a smaller disk next, have n IBM0663 (?) here and a quantum, have
to look if they work at all....
Regards,
Holm
--
Ok, I've tried to install on the IBM0663 disk (displayed as 995MB, sd0)
Did I miss something? Why did you expect any different result?
You're getting an error about the root file system being full, and this
on the installation system, where the root file system is a ram disk.
Makes no difference what harddrive you hook up.
Johnny
The Filesystem gets full since sysinst is core dumping with an illegal
instruction fault. After that I have a prompt, stty sane recovers the
terminal, I can remove the core and do commands be entering them in the
shell. Disklabel isn't really helpful then, it displays a "564" ??
You are first getting the file system full error. You then get sysinst
crashing, and that is what triggers the writing of the core file, or
else the screen dump you sent isn't telling the full story.
I don't see much more, it is very cler that it gets scrambled, I can log to
a file but then the file is full of escape chars from the terminal control
sequences (curses).
Post by Johnny Billquist
I've tried the different disk size since the MV3100 M76 has a problem
with 12BIT SCSI cmds and some wrape around of sizes over 4 Gig in the
Bootroms.
Right. Which is only a problem in the booting, as that is the only time
the device drivers from ROM is used. They are not used on a running
system, and you have no such size limitations on disks on a running system.
Oh, and the size limit is actually only just over 1G unless I remember
wrong.
Theoretical you are right.
But as you can see now I'm struggeling while making the filesystems on the
4Gig drive with NetBSD now.
I've labeled the 0663 1G drive with OpenBSD, made a newfs with OpenBSD,
rebooted and make a newfs the 2nd time. It worked and I made installboot
and polluted the fs's.

I think to remember thatI tried this with the 4Gig Drive too, but the Label
was'nt recognized from NetBSD now and newfs is core dumping.
I've overwritten the disk many times, created new labels and tried again,
w/o any luck.
So don't ask me why I'm trying this, there is some difference.
even a physical copy from rsd0c to rsd1c doesn't created a thing where
newfs /dev/rsd1a is possible.
Post by Johnny Billquist
Again, that is NOT simh, that's on the iron and the miniroot had enough
space to work and install NetBSD to the disk. It is just sysinst that bails
out.
Yeah. sysinst can be a problem of its own.
It seems thatI have three problems, disklabel, newfs and sysinst wich is a
binary that wants to disklabel like disklabel I think.
Post by Johnny Billquist
BTW: Miniroot is called miniroot because it should be so small to fit in
the memory of the smallest possible machine for installation purposes..,
just in Case someone doesn't know..
SCNR
That's your interpretation. Others might have different opinions...
Then they are wrong. (KISS)
Post by Johnny Billquist
So it seems to be exactly as I wrote before, You have a running System but
no one is able to install it on the VS3100 "the normal way".
Don't try to find the Bug using simh and the KA655, I've tried this, on
this "architecture" the sysinst is working flawlessly and doesn't core dump.
Last year I've tried to install over network so the network was up and
running when sysinst core dumped. Now I'm booting from CD. Lets see if I
can get up the network and copy the core dump for debugging purposes.
I did a network install on a 3600 only a couple of months ago, but that
machine had 24 megs if I remember right.
Thats what my M38 CVAX has.
Post by Johnny Billquist
I tought sysinst may be compiled with the wrong CPU definition causing that
"illegal instruction" core dump, but the ka655 used in simh is also a CVAX.
It is possible that simh lets running instructions that should'nt,
emulating to much fp a CVAX? Really don't know..
No. Such style of CPU differences are not the issue.
Johnny
Ok,

Regards,

Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, ***@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
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