Most perverted DEC system: DECsystem 5500

[Michael Kukat]

Hello,

okay, i aquired a DECsystem 5500 at eBay now. After fixing a burned operator
panel, this thing seems to work nice. But i saw an _EXTREMELY_ perverted
curiosity:

Trying to boot Ultrix/RISC: ?FILESTRUCT somewhat
Trying to boot NetBSD/pmay: ?FILESTRUCT somewhat

Okay. I know this message from a VAX trying to boot from a non-FILES11-disc.
So i thought: okay. Getting rid of this message is easy: Throw in a
FILES11-disc. The system will crash, but for testing, if my CD-ROM is okay,
this is enough. So i inserted Ultrix/VAX.

And i didn't believe it: This beast boots Ultrix/VAX!!! Extremely slow, but
boots. Okay, the kernel halts when starting, but this thing executes VAX code.
Same with VMS/VAX. It starts booting and terminaltes with %SYSBOOT-F-Unknown
Processor or so. But it executes VAX code. As a final test: Booting NetBSD/vax
on it. The bootloader display the usual text, the counter goes down, okay but
then, it fails with stray interrupts. But this is the definitive prove that a
DECsystem 5500 with a MIPS R3000 inside is capable of executing VAX code, maybe
even emulate a VAX.

So, should we, besides port-pmax, also port NetBSD/vax on this machine? Just as
a nice gag? Okay. I have the hardware now, so i will have a look into the
kernel to drive DS5500 support, according to the website, it is still in
progress. I don't know if i find the time to port NetBSD/vax on it also, but i
will have a look into NetBSD/pmax.

But, besides this funny story... Is there a way to boot the official
Ultrix/RISC from CD on this machine? "B DIA3" doesn't work, and the RZ devices
aren't recognized in several forms, but are displayed in "SHOW DEV".

...Michael

[Simon Burge]

[removed port-alpha, added port-pmax]

So a DECsystem 5500 is really some model Vax (I know ~nothing about
vaxen) with its Vax CPU board ripped out and a MIPS CPU board put in
its place. The 5500 is a "Mipsfair II" and I believe there is a Vax
"Mayfair II" - so that's a 3300 or a 3400?. There's some info at
http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/pmax/models.html#ds5500.

These do indeed run Ultrix just fine; we had them running Ultrix
4.5 at my old job. As to running Vax code... Maybe the console
processor thingy (see, I don't know vaxen ;-) makes it look like a Vax
or something, but the R3000 definitely doesn't run Vax code.

I have four of these sitting in a cabinet in the garage. I just need
to find some spare time to get back to working on the port to them.

boot -f tftp() -s

Text size = 1883760
Text start = 0x80030000
+77488+428188 entry: 0x80030000
No driver for console device, using prom for console I/O.
Copyright (c) 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999
The NetBSD Foundation, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.

NetBSD 1.4P (MONA) #365: Wed Dec 1 15:33:48 EST 1999
***@mona:/NetBSD/src/sys/arch/pmax/compile/MONA
DECsystem 5500 (MIPSFAIR-2)
total memory = 98304 KB
avail memory = 88232 KB
using 1254 buffers containing 5016 KB of memory
mainbus0 (root)
cpu0 at mainbus0
cpu0: MIPS R3000 CPU Rev. 3.0 with MIPS R3010 FPC Rev. 3.0
cpu0: 64KB Instruction, 64KB Data, direct mapped cache
ibus0 at mainbus0
ne at ibus0 addr 0x10008000 not configured
asc at ibus0 addr 0x17100000 not configured
<hang>

nearly 4 years ago.

If you want truly wierd, I'd look at the DECsystem 58x0's instead. SMP
using R3000's, based on a Vax 6000/300.

Simon.
--
Simon Burge <***@wasabisystems.com>
NetBSD Development, Support and Service: http://www.wasabisystems.com/

[Michael Kukat]

Hi !

boot -f tftp() -s

how do you get the ">>" prompt on this machine? I just get the VAX-like ">>>"
prompt, which can't handle the syntax mentioned. The result is the message
"ARG OVERF", as "help" also doesn't mention this syntax. I know this from the
DECstations, but my DECsystem 5500 behaves a bit different, it looks more like
a VAX in the firmware. (Yes, it really has R3000 CPU boards).

In worst case, i will try booting via MOP with using ris on the boot server,
which will be a DECstation 5000/240. But booting this beast from CD would be
much nicer and easier :)

...Michael

[Michael Kukat]

Hi !

Post by Michael Kukat

boot -f tftp() -s

how do you get the ">>" prompt on this machine? I just get the VAX-like ">>>"
prompt, which can't handle the syntax mentioned. The result is the message
"ARG OVERF", as "help" also doesn't mention this syntax. I know this from the
DECstations, but my DECsystem 5500 behaves a bit different, it looks more like
a VAX in the firmware. (Yes, it really has R3000 CPU boards).

Ah, got it. "exit" helps. Now it boots Ultrix here.

...Michael

[v***@neurotica.com]

Are you sure this machine is actually a 5500?

Peace... Sridhar

Post by Michael Kukat
Hi !

boot -f tftp() -s

how do you get the ">>" prompt on this machine? I just get the VAX-like ">>>"
prompt, which can't handle the syntax mentioned. The result is the message
"ARG OVERF", as "help" also doesn't mention this syntax. I know this from the
DECstations, but my DECsystem 5500 behaves a bit different, it looks more like
a VAX in the firmware. (Yes, it really has R3000 CPU boards).
In worst case, i will try booting via MOP with using ris on the boot server,
which will be a DECstation 5000/240. But booting this beast from CD would be
much nicer and easier :)
...Michael
--
http://www.bsdfans.org/ Home Powered by: (Net|Open|Free)BSD IRIX NonStop-UX
Solaris AIX HP-UX Tru64 MUNIX Ultrix VMS SINIX Dolphin_Unix OpenStep MacOS A/UX

[Michael Kukat]

Hi !

Post by v***@neurotica.com
Are you sure this machine is actually a 5500?

Ultrix tells so now... Okay, trying to boot NetBSD now.

...Michael

[Simon Burge]

Post by Michael Kukat
Hi !

Post by v***@neurotica.com
Are you sure this machine is actually a 5500?

Ultrix tells so now... Okay, trying to boot NetBSD now.

Umm, don't waste your time... I didn't get any further than what I sent
in a previous email, and certainly never committed anything that even
vaguely promises to work...

Simon.
--
Simon Burge <***@wasabisystems.com>
NetBSD Support and Service: http://www.wasabisystems.com/

[Simon Burge]

Post by Michael Kukat
how do you get the ">>" prompt on this machine? I just get the VAX-like ">>>"
prompt, which can't handle the syntax mentioned. The result is the message
"ARG OVERF", as "help" also doesn't mention this syntax. I know this from the
DECstations, but my DECsystem 5500 behaves a bit different, it looks more like
a VAX in the firmware. (Yes, it really has R3000 CPU boards).

You found "exit" :)

Post by Michael Kukat
In worst case, i will try booting via MOP with using ris on the boot server,
which will be a DECstation 5000/240. But booting this beast from CD would be
much nicer and easier :)

Something like:

boot -f rz(0,4,0)

should do the trick (or is that just "rz(4)"?) Assuming of course the
CD is wired up at SCSI id 4.

Simon.
--
Simon Burge <***@wasabisystems.com>
NetBSD Support and Service: http://www.wasabisystems.com/

[Lord Isildur]

wow, this is pretty impressive! unless...someone has put a VAX processor
in there instead! what does it report itself as on startup?

isildur

Post by Michael Kukat
Hello,
okay, i aquired a DECsystem 5500 at eBay now. After fixing a burned operator
panel, this thing seems to work nice. But i saw an _EXTREMELY_ perverted
Trying to boot Ultrix/RISC: ?FILESTRUCT somewhat
Trying to boot NetBSD/pmay: ?FILESTRUCT somewhat
Okay. I know this message from a VAX trying to boot from a non-FILES11-disc.
So i thought: okay. Getting rid of this message is easy: Throw in a
FILES11-disc. The system will crash, but for testing, if my CD-ROM is okay,
this is enough. So i inserted Ultrix/VAX.
And i didn't believe it: This beast boots Ultrix/VAX!!! Extremely slow, but
boots. Okay, the kernel halts when starting, but this thing executes VAX code.
Same with VMS/VAX. It starts booting and terminaltes with %SYSBOOT-F-Unknown
Processor or so. But it executes VAX code. As a final test: Booting NetBSD/vax
on it. The bootloader display the usual text, the counter goes down, okay but
then, it fails with stray interrupts. But this is the definitive prove that a
DECsystem 5500 with a MIPS R3000 inside is capable of executing VAX code, maybe
even emulate a VAX.
So, should we, besides port-pmax, also port NetBSD/vax on this machine? Just as
a nice gag? Okay. I have the hardware now, so i will have a look into the
kernel to drive DS5500 support, according to the website, it is still in
progress. I don't know if i find the time to port NetBSD/vax on it also, but i
will have a look into NetBSD/pmax.
But, besides this funny story... Is there a way to boot the official
Ultrix/RISC from CD on this machine? "B DIA3" doesn't work, and the RZ devices
aren't recognized in several forms, but are displayed in "SHOW DEV".
...Michael
--
http://www.bsdfans.org/ Home Powered by: (Net|Open|Free)BSD IRIX NonStop-UX
Solaris AIX HP-UX Tru64 MUNIX Ultrix VMS SINIX Dolphin_Unix OpenStep MacOS A/UX

[Magnus B{ckstr|m]

Congratulations, you've discovered the DEC5500's console processor!

It's a VAX, and yes -- it can boot operating systems. The VAX lives on
the QBUS and can access that bus just as the R3000 system module can;
its main purpose is to run diagnostics. If you have SDI or DSSI disks
you can even log on and speak to them with SET HOST/DUP <...>, etc.

But the console processor is not the one you want to boot netbsd on,
except for purposes of showing off :-)

IIRC, you log off the VAX and return to the R3000 console program by
simply typing 'EXIT'. In the pmax console you go to the VAX with
with the 'MAINT' command. The pmax console should show you a '>>'
prompt, as opposed to the '>>>' VAX prompt.

As a rule, you get the pmax console by default; some self-test errors
can cause the VAX to take over though.

The VAX console processor in the 5500 continued an old DEC tradition,
e g the VAX780 and 8600 series had LSI11 console processors. The 8600
console processor would boot RSX without much fuss, even while an OS
was running on the VAX...

Somehow DEC liked to install the previous generation of machine as
console controller in their current generation. A somewhat disagreeable
twist in this tradition imo was the console controller of the VAX85xx
machines -- they were DEC "Personal 350" things which ran its own OS
and a special, rather buggy, application to poke around inside the VAX
cpus. The console would crash every so often, and when it came back up
it would not always respect the privacy of the VAX cpu already running
multiuser.

Post by Michael Kukat
Hello,
okay, i aquired a DECsystem 5500 at eBay now. After fixing a burned operator
panel, this thing seems to work nice. But i saw an _EXTREMELY_ perverted
Trying to boot Ultrix/RISC: ?FILESTRUCT somewhat
Trying to boot NetBSD/pmay: ?FILESTRUCT somewhat
Okay. I know this message from a VAX trying to boot from a non-FILES11-disc.
So i thought: okay. Getting rid of this message is easy: Throw in a
FILES11-disc. The system will crash, but for testing, if my CD-ROM is okay,
this is enough. So i inserted Ultrix/VAX.
And i didn't believe it: This beast boots Ultrix/VAX!!! Extremely slow, but
boots. Okay, the kernel halts when starting, but this thing executes VAX code.
Same with VMS/VAX. It starts booting and terminaltes with %SYSBOOT-F-Unknown
Processor or so. But it executes VAX code. As a final test: Booting NetBSD/vax
on it. The bootloader display the usual text, the counter goes down, okay but
then, it fails with stray interrupts. But this is the definitive prove that a
DECsystem 5500 with a MIPS R3000 inside is capable of executing VAX code, maybe
even emulate a VAX.
So, should we, besides port-pmax, also port NetBSD/vax on this machine? Just as
a nice gag? Okay. I have the hardware now, so i will have a look into the
kernel to drive DS5500 support, according to the website, it is still in
progress. I don't know if i find the time to port NetBSD/vax on it also, but i
will have a look into NetBSD/pmax.
But, besides this funny story... Is there a way to boot the official
Ultrix/RISC from CD on this machine? "B DIA3" doesn't work, and the RZ devices
aren't recognized in several forms, but are displayed in "SHOW DEV".
...Michael
--
http://www.bsdfans.org/ Home Powered by: (Net|Open|Free)BSD IRIX NonStop-UX
Solaris AIX HP-UX Tru64 MUNIX Ultrix VMS SINIX Dolphin_Unix OpenStep MacOS A/UX